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Congress rethinks the Real ID Act
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National IDs for everybody?
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Senate scrutinizes air travel database
March 13, 2003
(continued from previous page)
The idea also appeared in the Senate's immigration proposal last year. But a handful of U.S. senators including Chuck Grassley, an Iowa Republican, and Barack Obama, an Illinois Democrat, introduced an amendment, which passed 59-39, that was supported by the ACLU because it would have allowed Americans to sue the government for back pay and attorneys fees if they were wrongfully denied employment through the electronic screening process. The latest bill does not allow such an option.
"We need an electronic verification system that can effectively detect the use of fraudulent documents, significantly reduce the employment of illegal workers, and give employers the confidence that their workforce is legal," Obama said in a statement at the time.
According to a Congressional Budget Office report last year (PDF), similar verification requirements in last year's Senate bill were expected to produce "very few EEVS errors that would lead to compensation for lost wages, particularly for native-born workers." Specifically, the office predicted 10 errors per million inquiries for native-born workers and a 0.4 percent error rate for foreign-born workers, which they estimated would decline to 0.025 percent by 2011 because of "system improvements."
But Sparapani argued that virtually all government databases are "riddled with errors" and predicted inconveniences for workers beholden to the nationwide system would be commonplace, particularly if "they set this thing up and do not build in an instant 24-hour hotline with people at an administrative agency, hiring thousands of (people) to answer phone calls and handle data requests."
A year and a half to comply
The immigration bill currently being debated would effectively make today's voluntary system mandatory and expand it to check birth and death records, Department of State passport and visa records, and state drivers license records. By 2013, if a person wanted to present a drivers license, it would have to be one that complies with the
requirements of the controversial Real ID Act. (A valid passport or a combination of vital records documents could generally be substituted.)
The changes would take place through multiple steps. Within 18 months of the bill's enactment, all employers would be required to verify new hires or any existing employees whose documentation had expired. Some industries, such as those that deal with homeland security or contract with the government, would be compelled to participate almost immediately upon the bill's passage.
The Society for Human Resource Management estimates that 25,000 to 30,000 employers would have to be enrolled in the system each day to get everyone covered during that period, which would likely require huge budget increases and the creation of a new bureaucracy at Homeland Security.
No later than three years after the bill's enactment, all employers would be required to verify the work eligibility of each of their employees--regardless of how long they have been employed--who had not yet been screened.
According to the Government Accountability Office, last year's immigration proposal, which included similar provisions, was estimated to cost $11.7 billion per year. Bush administration officials fielding reporters' questions at a press conference last week weren't able to pin a number to this year's effort.
Another glaring problem, critics say, is that the current screening system has not proven itself resistant to fraud.
Notably, it doesn't have any way of directly determining whether a job applicant has presented an entirely fabricated identity, which is what led to a high-profile flap last year involving illegal workers at six meatpacking facilities operated by Swift & Co.
Raids by Homeland Security Department agents in December resulted in thousands of immigration-related arrests, including charges that hundreds of people had stolen others' identities to secure jobs with the Greeley, Colo.-based company. But as a Swift executive told a House of Representatives committee last month, the company had "played by all the rules," counting itself as one of the few U.S. employers that had used Basic Pilot since 1997, but had concluded as a result of the raids that the system is "fatally flawed."
"As currently structured, Basic Pilot does not detect duplicate active records in its database," John Shandley, the company's senior vice president of human resources, told politicians. "The same Social Security number could be in use at another employer, and potentially multiple employers, across the country."
In a recent statement about the bill, the White House maintained that the proposal will allow for "unprecedented" information sharing among federal and state agencies, and that Homeland Security will be able to receive "information on multiple uses of the same Social Security number by more than one individual."
One provision in the bill calls for the design of the verification system to "allow for auditing use of the system to detect fraud and identify theft," including development of algorithms that "detect potential identity theft, such as multiple uses of the same identifying information or documents."
The expanded, mandatory system would also have to be devised in a way that allows employers to compare the photograph of a person on an identity document presented during the hiring process against digital photographs stored in databases by whoever issued the identity card, such as a motor vehicle employee.
Finally, the bill includes broadly worded provisions that attempt to make the underlying documents less prone to counterfeiting. It calls for the Social Security Administration, for instance, to issue "fraud-resistant, tamper-resistant and wear-resistant" cards and to consider the feasibility of including a photograph and other biometric information as well.
The ACLU's Sparapani argued that the bill's penalties for noncompliance aren't tough enough to discourage unscrupulous employers from continuing to pay undocumented workers under the table. Under the new rules, "the black market economy is likely to grow rather than shrink," he said.
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Mark
This article has nothing to do with technology, and only exists to shove the ultra-left-wing opinions on the bill being voted on in congress down the throats of the CNet readers. Like I said the database already exists, the law for verification already exists, the ID cards already exist, just that the law is not really enforced that much and employers are too lazy to use the existing system.
The scary part of this whole article is that the bill has not even been approved of yet! It is still being debated on, and voted on. It only passed one house of congress, and the article is pretending like it has become the law already, when in fact it has not yet become law and might, for all we know, be voted down or filibustered.
In fact, we don't even need it to be passed, just enforce the existing laws on immigration and use the existing database to verify citizenship. Then enforce the law to penalize employers for hiring illegals and once you crack down on them, they will beginning using that verification database like they should have over 70 years ago when it was established by FDR as part of social security.
Since when did CNet become an ultra-left wing political tabloid rag?
I mean CNet has been forcing global warming down our throats for the past year or so, and now is forcing illegal immigration issues down our throats as well now. How much money is the Democratic Party paying your company to publish articles supporting their point of view in order to brainwash us technology people who want to read technology news instead of political news?
Anyway, liberal is to conservative as libertarian is to authoritarian. You're just confused as the ACLU has been subverted to a liberal agenda.
Both parties want Big Brother. They just want to shut out the others from access to it. Watch another election season unfold where the issues will yet again be Gay Marriage and Abortion.
Both parties are entirely convinced that loyalty is way more important than issues. Both are pushing an "Either you're with us or you're against us" strategy.
The slobs that rule plebeian society are going to bleat and recite the mantra "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear." and you know what? They're right!
Nobody IS going to do anything about anything. Reporting the disintegration of our civil liberties won't do ANYthing to stem the tide. Anyone who stands out to fight it will just get hurt.
Thank you ACLU for putting pedophiles, illegal aliens and aggressive homosexual stalking way ahead of the right to privacy, the right to demonstrate and the right to bear arms.
Stalin would love them but then again, Stalin wasn't a libertarian. He was a Communist dictator.
And just remember, a vote for an independent is a vote for the bad guys. Support your local Demacrook or Republicon and... maybe they'll let you keep your job. ;) Maybe.
Second, we've been covering the intersection of technology and politics for over a decade. Anyone remember the CDA back in the mid-1990s? CALEA? Encryption export controls? All those are political, and technical.
Third, the questions of security, privacy, accountability, access, and reliability for a new government databases are assuredly technology-related and deserve to be asked in these pages.
Read this, a weep, my fellow countrymen, for what we have lost in our ruch for "security"; we have lost our national soul:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2063979,00.html
Still interested? This register will be independent of the presence or non-presence of illegals anyway.
UPDATE SERFS SET CAN_WORK = 'N' WHERE PARTY_AFFILIATION = 'D';
None of this has anything to do with safety... and everything to do with control.
Just wait... "laws" giving "law-enforcement" the absolute, unilateral, power to detain... seize... investigate... monitor... search... question... or, go on any damned >>>fishing-expedition<<< that they want... and, even "torture"... have all, pretty-much, already been put in place.
Use the Internet... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government. Have a "bank account"... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government. Have a car... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government. Have a job... youll be continually "monitored" by the Government.
ALL of this has a name... an UGLY ONE (to any real-American)... "TOTALITARIANISM".
I, for one, am sick of constant government video-surveillance... warrant-less Government "spying programs"... Police "checkpoints"... "secret" police-actions... and so-called "war", after "war", after "war" (which are entirely artificially-created, solely, to rob me of every single American-freedom)... And, all of it coming from some of the most corrupt-administrations in American-history.
Frankly, there are only two kinds of people that support this CRAP... FOOLS, and TRAITORS that just know that "freedom" is the single-greatest threat to the STATUS QUO (which they personally benefit from).
Blame Rockefeller,Ford, and Morgans for starting this mess in America.
These guys are traitors to the constitution and the elected leaders who are allowing this are co-conspirators and traitors also.
Our children are doomed if it is not stopped.
I think it is too late for Britain.
I am truly afraid for my country...
Read on, and you'll learn the reason why.
Instead, Indian IT offshoring companies are using this Visa to preferentially hire only Indian nationals, and then train them on the job in the U.S. As a prelude to massive offshoring of U.S. jobs.
Karmal Nath (Indian Commerce Minister) knows this, and he is raising a fuss over it because he wants to obscure the fundamental reasons why there is a controversy over this Visa program.
These issues are:
- Indian companies discriminate against U.S. citizens by preferentially hiring Indian citizens, over U.S. citizens, for U.S. based jobs.
- The h-1b Visa program is being used as the "Outsourcing Visa" by Indian IT offshoring companies.
The commerce minister himself has coined the term "Outsourcing Visa" when referring the U.S. h-1b visa program.
These companies are not even trying to find U.S. personnel to fill these jobs.
In open testimony before congress, an applicant called a U.S. recruiter for a job in the U.S. She was told she would not be considered for the job simply because she could not be sponsored for an h-1b Visa.
In other words your are not qualified just because you are american. That's discrimination and bigotry in its worst form.
India has to ask itself one very consciencious question, would this be allowed in India? I think not.
Karmal Nath is responding perversly (he is threatening the U.S. with trade sanctions in the WTO) because he knows there is something obviously wrong. And the Senators (Durbin and Grassely) are merely working to make sure that U.S. citizens are not discriminated against in their own country just because their point of origin happens to be the U.S.
It is ridiculous to link the h-1b Visa with trade. It is a long-term, 3 to 6 year visa, meant to enhance U.S. industry and U.S. jobs, and possibly lead to U.S. citizen ship.
No more babies that are citizens because they are born here, they are citizens of the country of their mother.
The illegals that are no problem, are no problem. No need to chase them out.
Are the apologists going to try to claim that all 12 Million are active criminals or welfare leaches?
The very hard to swallow part is that it takes so much time, money, and hard work on the part of an American to prepare for these specific careers. It took me six years of working and going to school to get my BSCS. And it wasn't easy - I remember late nights in the data center, working with other students to solve problems and get projects in on time. It is an intense and competitive program - all to prepare you for a career that is being offshored and streamlined by the H-1Bs.
How utterly unfair and disheartening to set Americans up for failure like that.
This will be happening with all the high skill service sector jobs. Discussions are being held now. The limitation (without any government controls) will be set only the imaginations of the corporations trying to increase their profits. This is why nothing will get better until we cut the corporate strings attached to all our politicians.
As far as intellectual property is concerned, it's the obligation of any corporation doing business in foreign countries to understand and observe their laws. Our government does not try to change them, nor are they interested in Socialist idealism from countries who feel that they have a mandate to get more from us than we get from them.
It just so happens that a bunch of post cold war has-beens still think that we can buy friends. Everything else is plain old hardball negotiation between businesses which favor larger corporations while dragging governments into the business of business.
I suggest that Government only regulate trade according to Constitutional guidelines and allow the Fed to do their jobs. Leave the political Napoleons out of it and learn to take care of your own house.
Getting back on topic, this idea is entirely in agreement with a zero compromise strategy towards illegal aliens. Politicians aren't there to serve the interests of Mexicans who they're just convinced will become voters for their holy party anyway. The Dems think they're a shoe-in on Minority-Victim Socialism and the Pubs think they've got a lock on the Catholic.
The rest of us know what a worthless government is in Mexico. I personally don't give a hoot how hard they work. They're not welcome here until they are willing to play by our cultural and economic rules. That includes not selling yourself to the church, the state and the corporations.
Predictable troglodytes, one and all.
In short, it is a half measure (at best!) that deals with the symptoms not the cause of the problem.
Parts of the proposed immigration bill I could support. But this little piece of legislation will steal so much more of our privacy rights from us, I will vigorously oppose it.
Another term like this one will spark a revolution.
You've only got one choice left. Some day in the not so distant future, some people are going to forcibly prevent aliens from coming into the country and Uncle Sam will send troops to subjugate it's own citizens.
Some mamby-pamby family men are going to get all wrapped up in a debate over who fires the first shot and some people will know better.
1: An ID can be created that can not be forged.
2: The Government can accurately collect and warehouse data.
3: The Government can determine which illegal was here by the deadline and the ones that came afterwards.
4: The Government will enforce the new law.
5: The fiscal impact of this bill is low.
Let's look at the issues with the bill:
1. Any ID can be forged. We live in an age that you can get anything if you have the money.
2. The Government can not even find the illegals using the same SSN or dead people's SSN in the country now. The no-fly list shows how poorly the Government collects, scrubs and maintains data.
3. If you have this zVisa to "prove" it, see #1.
4. The Government does not enforce the laws we have already, so what would make us think they would enforce a new law?
5. Estimates are around $1.5 trillion to add the guest workers to our entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare and Welfare.
The border needs to be closed first. Once we have control on the border, then we can look at solving the issues at hand. The fence bill was passed prior to the 2006 election, 2 miles have been built, the rest needs to be completed. Then we need to work with the Border Patrol to maintain complete control of the border.
The next issue is the Government needs to address is to enforce the existing laws. Fine the businesses that hire illegals. Deport all criminal illegals. Look at the social security number usage, and review the people that have numbers used in multiple places across the country, deport the illegals that are abusing the system.
The next issue is to resolve the "Anchor Baby" issue by stating that children of citizens born in the US are automatically citizens. Existing anchor babies can not be used as an anchor for illegals, they must be deported with their parents and they can use the legal process to get into this country.
The next issue is to reduce the time it takes for legal naturalization. 8 years is too long, why can't it be done in a few months?
This Bill is the wrong solution, and one of the main sponsors is John McCain. Conservatives can see clearly why we can't for for McCain now.
If people knew it was hard or impossible to get jobs then the incentive to come would be reduced.
2. It will screw up the system even worse for those of us who play by the rules.
3. It will provide a whole new set of criminalized behaviors to give the the executive branch an excuse to exercise force against the citizens of this country, i.e. you and me.
4. It will raise taxes.
5. It will divert tax money into the pockets of the cronies of the government representatives supporting this bill. The rich get richer and we end up paying the friggin bill, assuming we can get the job.
6. The more databases the government creates to "manage" people, the more screwed up the data becomes, and the less capable they are of cleaning ANY of them up.
7. For what it's worth, I've yet to hear of an I.T. worker (or any other white collar worker for that matter) losing his or her job to an illegal immigrant. You just don't see a lot of ******** wearing 3-piece suits to work; although that might not necessarily hold true of snowbacks.
I use the terms ******* and snowback in their traditional meanings to describe illegal aliens who come across the Mexican or Canadian borders. You don't like the terms, too bad; they are both accurate and appropriately derogatory.
This specialized Nation ID Database Legislation is another bureaucratic government solution in search of a problem. I do not understand why the U.S. Congress wants to create any more massive new government databases then those they already have created, and why the government is so obsessed about trying to manage, quantify, track and control people who are ambitious, hard working self-starters who want to work for a living.
First, there was the [i]"No-Fly List"[/i] to protect us from the air traveling [i]"Bad Guys".[/i] Now [i]Uncle Sam[/i] and his [i]Big Brother,[/i] in their wisdom, want to create a [i]"No-Work List"[/i] to protect us from the hard working [i]"Bad Guys".[/i]
I, as a free market capitalist-employer, should have the business freedom to make my own [i]Hiring Decision[/i] from the list of employee candidates who show up at my H.R. Office ready and anxious to work, and not be restricted to using some list that [i]Uncle Sam[/i] and his [i]Big Brother[/i] has "blessed." JP B-)
Oh. Should I be calling them "undocumented immigrants"? I'm such a bigot! Thank god we have HR departments! :o)