April 12, 2006 4:00 AM PDT
Phony kids, virtual sex
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But even in the open-minded "Second Life" community, what people consider to be acceptable may have its limits. Some of the virtual world's biggest fans are shaking their heads over what users call "age play." This age-based role-playing can take on various forms: It can be as innocuous as people acting out a family dynamic, or as potentially troubling as two adults engaging in sexual role playing, with one of the avatars made to look like a child.
While "Second Life" maker Linden Lab acknowledges that age play occurs in its virtual world, the extent to which it happens in its most discomfiting form is unclear. The game's forums frequently buzz with debates over the appropriateness of "age play," but no one interviewed by CNET News.com said they have actually "seen" what could bluntly be described as graphically playacting the behavior of a pedophile.
Even so, legal experts said such virtual behavior between adults isn't likely to break the law, since there are no real children involved.
"It would not be (illegal) under child pornography laws because no actual child was used in the act," said Jack Balkin, a professor of constitutional law at Yale Law School and an expert on legal issues surrounding virtual worlds. "Child pornography laws receive special treatment under the First Amendment because children are sexually abused and people traffic in the results of that abuse." This does not apply in the age-play situation, he said.
Illegal or not, virtual role-playing that could easily offend many players puts "Second Life" creators at Linden Lab in a tricky spot: Do they try to legislate morality when it's likely that no laws are actually being broken? Or do they let people do as they wish behind closed virtual doors?
"Second Life" requires all players to be adults--and acts to remove anyone it can prove is underage. It has a separate grid for teenagers. And Linden Lab states categorically that it has zero tolerance for exploitation of actual children, such as uploaded images, in "Second Life" and will act quickly against anyone engaged in such behavior.
When "we have evidence of child pornography or abuse that involves children in the real world...we will act to protect the child and notify the authorities," Robin Harper, Linden Lab vice president of community development wrote in a posting on the official "Second Life" forum (free subscription required). "The individuals involved, if it's proven the exploitation occurred, will be banned."
But when the issue of age play has surfaced, as it has on numerous occasions in the forums, Linden Lab has taken pains to address the more complex issues that the behavior raises.
"There are people in ('Second Life') who are role-playing (as) children engaged in sexual activities," Harper wrote in the forums. "While not a terms-of-service violation--no illegal activity--it could be argued that this behavior is broadly offensive and therefore violates the community standards. If this activity were in public areas it would be viewed as being broadly offensive, and therefore unacceptable."
A teenage girl and her 'daddy'
In an interview with CNET News.com last week, Harper said that if a critical mass of "Second Life" participants were to ask that something additional be done about sexual age-play, Linden Lab would tackle the issue in some way. So far, there hasn't been a general outcry, she said.
But Harper also pointed out that what has made "Second Life" popular among its 170,000 players--and it's growing at a rate of about 20 percent a month--is the freedom it affords people who want to try out new personas, particularly in private sections of the virtual world, she said.
"We've tried very, very hard not to broadly ban role-playing type behaviors," Harper said, "because when all is said and done, the ability to try new behaviors and try new things out is a big reason people are in virtual worlds."
Still, it's not clear how often people are engaging in age-play types of pretend behavior. But two "Second Life" players told CNET News.com about their experiences witnessing sexual or sexually charged age-play.
It is a joke.
Who in their right mind would sell mirror eyes for $65
Looking further ahead there is other issue where the simulated spite might become so real that even killing it might seem immoral. You might say i'm talking nonsense but consider this-
Picture I transfered you into a optial computer simulation so that i could see what it was like to torture and kill you sevral times over.
Just how far can we go before those line blur to much.
reality of these online services that the affect's they will have on
our youth.
It's sad that it takes something like MySpace.com before the
Media become proactive. Maybe CNET News.com doesn't realize
the impact that they [CNet] have on society when they publish
articles like this.
Online Media Giants like CNET News.com have a big influence on
how company's and corporations handle there services as well as
there data. Article's like this scare entities like MySpace.com into
putting money back in the Web R&D necessary to ensure a safe
and effective online environment for everybody.
For this alone I would like to thank you personally, CNET
News.com for being the "Online Tech News that Makes a
Difference". I truly believe the article's that are published here on
CNET News.com truly contribute to the overall nature and well
being of the World Wide Web.
Thank You,
~Justin
PS. If I had it my way you could all take Friday off for being so
damn good at what you do!
The idea that because it is not a real child being victimized makes it somehow okay is silly at best. The reason normal people don't want this behavior to occur is because any mature reasonable adult can surmise that if an adult is creating situations by which he can watch a realistic 3-D rendition of himself having sexual relations with a 6-year-old child, then there is something dangerous about what he considers "sexy."
Just as SL is being used by UC Davis to train medical staff and being used by groups helping troubled teens to learn to socialize in a healthy manner, SL activities can potentially also be used to dangerous ends. Just like those troubled kids will hopefully bring back their positive social skills learned in SL to the real world, a grown man role playing child sexual abuse will likely also bring back his practiced behavior to the real world.
for a majority of computer pornography enthusiasts, online sex
was better than whatever else they were into before, like sex
with their spouses. Often, this leads to broken primary
relationships, as sex with a real partner outside of marriage also
often does. Ardor is not so much cooled as fastened onto
another. Real or virtual, I would expect it to be uncomfortable
for the abandoned partner.
I may be old fashioned. I've been with the same woman for 35
years and I helped computers become what they have, and for
me there is nothing I could get from looking at any image on
any screen that could be as good as what's available in real life.
I also fail to respond to video games for the same reason. To
me, there is no way you can simulate the sensations of actually
driving or skiing or flying aerobatics, at least not with stuff on
my desk. I do have an idea for a digital virtual suit of clothing
that would transmit and receive tactile data - in other words,
feelings - thereby allowing new levels of personal online
interaction. Virtual capitalists take note. The real Killer App is
at hand. Make the check out to Jack, and Let's Roll!
Once again, the uptight idiots want to control the sex lives of others. If you ask me, that is what is really perverted and sick.
they don't spill out into the real world and hurt anyone in real life,
we should just leave them alone. Who cares if the cyber-act is
offensive? Just stop looking at it and ignore it.
If people got rid of everything they found offensive, then there
would be no one left. Just live and let live.
Plus I wouldn't mind if law enforcement got involved somehow like with MySight I think.
From MySpace to Safer Space:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2006/tc20060411_341338.htm?chan=technology_technology+index+page_today's+top+stories
The biggest problem that started in the 90s is people encouraging others to break the law becaseu of indirect modes of communication
real children either, but people still get arrested.
These role players probably need to watch out and
make sure they aren't being set up too.
That being said, I think that the easiest solution to keep people from being offended is to create "zones" for "perverted" activity. Anyone not wishing to be offended would be able to play freely with little risk of seeing anything offensive. Action in the "perversion-free zones" would be strictly limited.
How limited, though, is anyone's guess. Some people are offended by viewing same-sex acts - so would this be disallowed? Some people are offended by group activity. Some people are offended by the use of "props." For that matter, some people are offended that "Second Life" even allows sex acts at all.
It's the classic cliched "slippery slope." Once you give in to one group, the rest get offended that you didn't cave in to THEIR demands.
When it comes to sex, everyone gets all prickly and pissy about things. Again, here we are only talking about people "playing pretend".
I've dated women (2 in fact) that had fantasies about being raped. Yep. Role-played whole deal. They each had their own specific requirements, and honestly, its not "my thing". But being the boyfriend, I played along with the game. On other nights, I'd get to play my way, instead.
Now that was a game, you see? If you believe that these two intelligent women actually *wanted* and *actual* rape, well, you're smokin' some powerful stuff.
Rape is insanely icky stuff in reality. But as a game, they two found it exciting.
If you could scan the minds of everyone you see on the subway or bus, on the street, at work and in your church, and peek into that little file-o-fax in their brains where they keep the things that "turn them on", you'd probably freak out.
I know one guy who wants desperately to find a severely overweight woman who'll defecate on him. No lie.
In summary: Lots of people think up crazy wild stuff. Sometimes they like to play pretend ("nuke the earth", "rapin'", "naughty schoolteacher and pizza boy"). Just because some people's make-believe upsets you to imagine it ("300 lb woman dumping a steam pile on your face"), doesn't mean you have to interject your standards on others. Start banning one person's "turn on" and you'll end up banning everyone's.
Rape is some awful stuff, for example (I never knew what the two prior gf's saw in it, actually). But pretend *is* pretend.
So what this whole argument boils down to is a fight between:
"Those who have a clear sense of what is real and what is pretend"
versus
"Those who have a hard time seperating fact and fiction and want to impose this lack of understanding upon others"
When it comes to sex, everyone gets all prickly and pissy about things. Again, here we are only talking about people "playing pretend".
I've dated women (2 in fact) that had fantasies about being raped. Yep. Role-played whole deal. They each had their own specific requirements, and honestly, its not "my thing". But being the boyfriend, I played along with the game. On other nights, I'd get to play my way, instead.
Now that was a game, you see? If you believe that these two intelligent women actually *wanted* and *actual* rape, well, you're smokin' some powerful stuff.
Rape is insanely icky stuff in reality. But as a game, they two found it exciting.
If you could scan the minds of everyone you see on the subway or bus, on the street, at work and in your church, and peek into that little file-o-fax in their brains where they keep the things that "turn them on", you'd probably freak out.
I know one guy who wants desperately to find a severely overweight woman who'll defecate on him. No lie.
In summary: Lots of people think up crazy wild stuff. Sometimes they like to play pretend ("nuke the earth", "rapin'", "naughty schoolteacher and pizza boy"). Just because some people's make-believe upsets you to imagine it ("300 lb woman dumping a steam pile on your face"), doesn't mean you have to interject your standards on others. Start banning one person's "turn on" and you'll end up banning everyone's.
Rape is some awful stuff, for example (I never knew what the two prior gf's saw in it, actually). But pretend *is* pretend.
So what this whole argument boils down to is a fight between:
"Those who have a clear sense of what is real and what is pretend"
versus
"Those who have a hard time seperating fact and fiction and want to impose this lack of understanding upon others"
These people are adults doing the dirty with other adults who are only pretending to be children.
It's weird and creepy, but if these loosers are engaging with other adults, then at least they're not looking at real child porn or chatting up real children. Cracking down on age-play would likely disperse these people to places where real children go.
I know there are arguments that people might transition from age-play to real children, but I think that most of these people are just sad armchair perverts and that most of those who would transition would probably do it anyway.
I hope the department of Homeland Security's LAN/WAN team blocked acces to the Second Life's domain though, we don't need anymore high profile arests.
also schools are for learning whats this have to do with anything besides a very liberal teachers union
- You people are sad
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by bmwchild
April 17, 2006 4:27 PM PDT
- To whom it may concern
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Reply to this comment
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See all 96 Comments >>You know it people like YOU! That start so much trouble of a virtual game, I mean come on man get a life, and seriously it is Fiction Fiction Fiction do I have to say it again. I rather have someone role-playing there fantasy than doing it in real life. But go ahead stir up trouble; you news people are good at it never thinking always wanting a good story.
You remind me of those people that chase off car clubs when there hanging out on parking lots, minding there own business chit chatting. People like you always chase them off I guess you rather have them go cause trouble than have a harmless chit chat.
Well to let you know people will always have fun doing fictional things and there is nothing you can do about nothing. So continue ranting I all enjoy sending you more and more stupid comment for your stupid stories.
Sincerely
Just another kid living a fictional life!